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SNG/MTT BR - cashout strategy (Jen @ P5's)

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  • SNG/MTT BR - cashout strategy (Jen @ P5's)

    I've been approached several times about how to manage a bankroll, and when to cash out. I'm going to address this question very heavily in this post.

    The following guidelines will assure with a high confidence level that you never go broke if you are +ROI in the games you are playing, and you exercise good game selection.

    Proper Bankroll Management Minimums:


    $65 - $1.10 STTs
    $87 - €1.10 STTs
    $90 - $1.10 18-man
    $128 - $1.10 45-man,
    $130 - $2.20 STTs
    $210 - $5.25 HU
    $215 - $3.30 STTs
    $270 - $6.25 HU
    $357 - $5.50 STTs
    $416 - $3.25 45-man
    $420 - $10.50 HU
    $422 - $6.50 STTs
    $440 - $2.20 MTTs, $2.20 180-man
    $495 - $3.30 90-man
    $585 - $6.50 18-man
    $715 - $11 STTs
    $780 - $12 STTs
    $820 - $21 HU
    $832 - $6.50 45-man
    $880 - $4.40 MTT, $4.40 180-man
    $975 - $6.50 90-man
    $990 - $11 18-man
    $1040 - $16 STTs
    $1080 - $12 18-man
    $1100 - $5.50 MTTs
    $1300 - $6.50 MTTs, $12 27-man, $20 STTs
    $1430 - $22 STTs
    $1440 - $16 18-man
    $1530 - $12 45-man
    $1560 - $24 STTs
    $1650 - $11 90-man
    $1755 - $27 STTs
    $1760 - $8.80 MTTs
    $1950 - $13 90-man
    $1980 - $22 18-man
    $2100 - $52.50 HU
    $2145 - $33 STTs
    $2160 - $24 18-man
    $2340 - $36 SNGs
    $2400 - $11 MTTs
    $2430 - $27 18-man
    $2470 - $38 STTs
    $2600 - $12 MTTs, $12 180-man
    $2970 - $33 18-man
    $3300 - $16.50 MTTs
    $3320 - $26 45-man
    $3420 - $38 18-man
    $3450 - $27 45-man
    $3570 - $55 STTs
    $3900 - $60 STTs, $26 90-man
    $4200 - $22 MTTs, $22 180-man
    $4250 - $105 HU
    $4860 - $38 45-man
    $4875 - $75 STTs
    $4950 - $55 18-man
    $5400 - $60 18-man, $27 MTTs
    $6600 - $33 MTTs
    $7200 - $36 180-man
    $7660 - $60 45-man
    $7800 - $39 MTTs, $52 90-man
    $8250 - $55 90-man
    $8500 - $210 HU
    $11000 - $55 MTTs
    $12000 - $60 MTTs
    $15000 - $75 MTTs
    $20800 - $109 MTTs
    $43000 - $215 MTTs
    $106000-$530 MTTs

    Clarifications:

    - For Double or Nothing SNGs, use the HU guidelines. At the higher levels, you will likely need more than 40 buyins due to diminishing ROI potential in these games.
    - For MTTs with less than 150 players, use the 90-man guidelines.
    - If your favorite game is not found on here, simply multiply the buyin by 40 for HU, 50 for FTP's Matrix SNGs, 65 for STTs, 90 for 18-20 man, 108 for 27-man, 128 for 45-man, 150 for 90-man, or 200 for 180-man or MTTs and add it to the list!
    - For satellites, to determine how many buyins you need, use the formula (2000/x), where x is the % of the field that gets paid. For example, if a satellite tournament pays 20% of the field, then (2000/20) = 100, so you need 100 buyins.
    - I will be crossposting this on my blog here so if you ever want to reference this, that's the easiest place to find it!
    - These buyin recommendations are very conservative and are intended to ensure that you make consistant money while your risk of ruin is extremely minimal. It is made for professional players who cannot afford to replenish their bankroll. Recreational players may feel free to cut these recommendations in half.
    - Satellites for must-play tournaments should only be played if you have enough in your bankroll for the target tournament, and you have an edge in that target event. There is an exception to this rule, below.
    - I didn't include any game with higher than a 10% rake, because I feel that those games are ripoffs.
    - If you are feeling good, don't play too far away from your highest allowable game. For instance, if your bankroll allows you to play $22 SNGs and you are playing $11 SNGs, you are not allowing yourself to make enough money.
    - If things have been rough lately, or you have lost confidence, there's no need to play at your highest allowable level. Get back that winning feeling by dropping down, and scoring some wins. You'll still be working towards moving up.

    Cashout strategy:

    Pay yourself according to volume, not results.

    Remove the following from your bankroll every time you play these games:

    HU: 2% of your buyin
    STTs: 3% of your buyin
    18-man: 4% of your buyin
    45-man: 5% of your buyin
    90-man: 6% of your buyin
    180-man/MTT: 8% of your buyin
    Also remove all Rakeback/Bonuses earned

    When your total cashouts reach the site's minimum cashout requirements, then cash out as soon as you can.

    Clarifications:

    - If you are a high buyin player, you may be playing a SNG where you are only expected to attain a very small ROI. In that case, divide your expected long-term ROI by 2 and cash out that much per game. For instance, if you are a $320 STT player who expects to make 2% ROI, cash out 1% ($3.30) per game played. That sounds small, but most of your income is coming from rakeback/bonuses anyway.
    - For hyper/superturbo SNGs, only remove 1.5% per game.

    Taking shots (optional):

    Then allow yourself 1/4 of your cashout money for entertainment. Your shot can be your entertainment. For instance, if you are a $5 player who would like to take a shot at a $50 game, then save up $200 in cashouts, and then withdraw $150. use the other $50 for your game. Obviously this is not optimal, but some people will explode their bankrolls at some point if they never get a chance to chase their dreams!

    Just one rule:

    - If you take a shot and win, cash out at least 75% of your winnings RIGHT AWAY. Don't try to use the shot to pad your bankroll. The bankroll management plan is already designed to keep you where you are going to make the most money per hour.

    When used together, over time, the Bankroll Management and Cashout Strategy will:

    - Keep you playing at or near your optimal level. You won't have to decide what games to play. The system will do it for you.
    - Ensure that you are beating the games at a high enough ROI to continue to play them. For instance if you maintain a 3% ROI at the $27 18-mans, although you are winning, you will be cashing out too much money (4%) to stay at that level, and the system will drop you back to the $16 level, where you will make more money per game.
    - Keep you from facing high % fluctuations in your bankroll so your mindset is good.
    - Have you making frequent cashouts no matter what your results are. This stops the endless cycle that some people have of moving up and moving down, but never cashing out!
    - Allow you to plan. Your income will be easily predicatable. For instance, if you are going to play 100 $27 18-mans today, you know you will cash out exactly $108, no matter how you do.
    - Encourage you to increase your volume.
    - Give you the opportunity to take an occasional shot at a bigger event and chase your dreams.

    I really hope this helps someone.

    Jen @ pocketfives.com

  • #2
    am citit si eu asta si folosesc chestia cu cashout rake

    Comment


    • #3
      si totusi buyinurile alea de la MTTs reprezinta average buyin / highest buyin sau ceva intre ?

      Comment


      • #4
        Postat în original de cereala Vezi post
        si totusi buyinurile alea de la MTTs reprezinta average buyin / highest buyin sau ceva intre ?
        As inclina sa spun ca este vorba de average pentru ca se vorbeste de volum mare.

        Comment


        • #5
          Postat în original de cereala Vezi post
          si totusi buyinurile alea de la MTTs reprezinta average buyin / highest buyin sau ceva intre ?
          cum adica? iti zice cati bani trebuie sa ai ca sa intri in fiecare mtt . 500fo = 100k etc

          Comment


          • #6
            sticky pls
            Trying to quit.

            Comment


            • #7
              Postat în original de cereala Vezi post
              si totusi buyinurile alea de la MTTs reprezinta average buyin / highest buyin sau ceva intre ?
              Eu inteleg ca minim buy in:

              Postat în original de admin_holdem Vezi post
              Bankroll Management Minimums

              Comment


              • #8
                Postat în original de lol Vezi post
                Eu inteleg ca minim buy in:
                eu inteleg minimul de $ br ca sa poti juca la mizele`alea.



                ... toata lumea, pe rand, ce intelege

                Comment


                • #9
                  banuiesc ca se refera ca el joaca sa zicem turnee de 20 dar pt ca nr e mic baga si de 10...si averge buy in ar fi la 15...deci buy-in-ul ar fi pt sng mtt de 180 de 3000 nu de 4000 sau 2000...

                  cred ca asta a intrebat cereala

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    daca vreau sa joc cele de 18-man,45-man si cele de 90-man (raport 1:4 ,adica la un sng de 90-man joc 4 sng de 45-man) toate turbo , ce bankroll ar trebui sa am ?

                    100 bi pt cele de 18 si 150 bi pt cele de 45/90 sau sa fie un bankroll comun ?

                    (mai difera si miza doar la 6,50$ bi sunt toate la fel ,in rest la 1,10$ 45/90 si 1,75$ 18-man si 3,25$ 45/90 si 3,40$ 18-man .)


                    si pentru viitoare cand vreau sa adaug si cele de 180 ce bankroll ar trebui atunci ?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In opinia mea sa joci mai mult de 2 tipuri de sngs e o strategie pierzatoare. N-ai cum sa joci optim la fiecare tip, sa bagi si volum, mai ales daca le joci si simultan. 2 tipuri e ok gen 18+45 sau 45+180 (pe stars) pentru ca strategia e foarte asemanatoare. Ma rog, fiecare joaca cum vrea cat vrea ce vrea, era doar un sfat.

                      Cat despre BM, cred ca e ok daca ai BR ptr miza cea mai mare si fieldul cel mai mare. Adica daca ai BR ptr 3.25 90 ppl poti juca si 3.25 45ppl si 1.75 18ppl.

                      PS: Pentru cele de 180 turbo, teoretic e ok cat zice Jen, adica 200bi, dar daca n-ai mai jucat deloc structura respectiva, as recomanda mai multe, gen 300 pana te obisnuiesti si capeti putina incredere. Eu am folosit mereu regulile de bankroll din topicul asta, sunt bune ca sa-ti faci o idee.
                      Last edited by mTz; 25.01.2011, 11:10.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        nu le amestec /cele de 18 vreau sa le bag doar pt battle of the planets va fii o sesiune zilnica ,restul 3-4 sesiuni de 45+ man ...in fine mi-am facut o formula pt bankroll avg bi(bazat pe pondera dupa minimul volum stabilit lunar) x 200 sper sa ma tin de treaba ! doamne ajuta !! hai salut ,bafta all ne vedem la anul pe 25 ianuarie i'm low profile-ing
                        Last edited by alex85; 25.01.2011, 18:24.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Deci daca joc 180 SNG de 2.5$:
                          Cashout: 8% * 2.50$ / game = 0.2$
                          La 500 games se fac 100$.
                          Scot 100$ dupa 500 games mereu?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Careva sa ma lamureasca si pe mine?

                            Joc $4.50 180s
                            deci 8% * $4.50 = $0.36
                            $0,36 * 280games = $100,80
                            Deci dupa fiecare 280 jocuri retrag $100?

                            Ms si bafta

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Bankroll management pt SNG pe stars

                              Joc si eu SNG de 1,50 - 27 juc pe stars, de vreo luna, cu bankroll de $400. Am inceput cu $360. Pana acum am facut vreo 3 blocuri mari de 100, dar fara sa am rezultate deosebite, adica sunt cam break even, plus f putin. Ma intereseaza si Battle of the planets. Imi poate spune si mie cineva, preferabil un grinder bun de SNG-uri, cam ce volum ar fi ideal sa bag la SNG-urile astea ca sa am un profit mai mare, sa imi cresc bankroll-ul...poate ar fi mai bine sa joc sng-uri de 18 juc?

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