UB fraud

[Donatello]

UltimateBet Poker News | UltimateBet.com

[Nabukadnezar]

am găsit un post interesant legat de caz:

I was the orgignial starter of this thread in high stakes no limit on two plus two. It was me (I am trambopoline on 2p2) and gaucho21 who orginally brought forth the charges of Nionio being a superuser. Without going too in depth, ill give you some of our reaons.

1) He played 60/40, which means he played 60% of the hands he was dealt and raised 40% of the hands he was dealt. This is called someones V$PIP (Voluntary $ Put in Pot). The avg VPIP of a winning 6 max or shorthanded player is about 25/20, maybe even as high as 30/20. 60/40 is a ridiculous amount of hands to be playing especially at $25-50+ against solid players

2) Not only was he playing a crazy 60/40 style, he was absolutely crushing some of the toughest cash games on the net. He was up 60k on me, 40k on arbianight, 30k on gaucho, at least another 30k on captainzeebo etc. So basically he was beating all of the regulars playing this crazy ass style. The most he is down to one person is <8k. And if you look at the hand histories, you wont find it rare at all for him to cold call large 3 and 4 bets before the flop with little to no implied odds, basically because he didnt need them because he knew exactly what he needed to hit and would be able to tell instantly whether his hand was good. He was basically a smarter version of the AP cheater.

3) After taking a total of 604k from NLHE cash games (we only know how much he won from NLHE, he couldve taken a ton more from PLO as well but we dont have any hands or any site that tracks PLO), he mysteriously vanishes from the online poker scene. In fact his last recorded cash game was on 9/4/07. This is RIGHT around the time the AP scandal broke out, literally within the week. And not only did he stop playing, he shut down his account. To shut down your account you would have to go out of your way to email UB and request them to do so. This fact alone was very very fishy in my opinion.

4) A site called MyPokerIntel: Online Poker Statistics and Intelligence tracks stricly UB cash games. This is where we got most of our info from. They were nice enough to send us a detailed chart of his play along with all 8200 hands they had logged. When looked at further, this is what the one of the founders of MPI said... In short, at limits that matter (MIDstakes and up), getting over 26+BB/100 doesn't seem to happen over the 400M hand sample that we have. Yet, with the player in question on this thread, the 60+BB/100 was achieved ALL AT TOP STAKES, over 8,000+ hands, not 3,000.

Keep in mind bb/100 actually means PTbb/100, which is double the big blind. So for $50-100 (which was his main game) he was making on average 12k an hour. This is an absolutely ridiculous winrate and the stat that was just given is just as ridiculous. Over their 400 million hand sample size not one player has won even 1/2 of the amount that Nionio did in his given timeframe (8k hands).

As a sidenote, I was also told by a very well respected high stakes player who has deep connections from the AP scandal that UB superuser accounts DO exist for testing purposes. I cannot out the source of this statement but I can guarantee that he is very trustworthy and reliable.

After looking at all this evidence, not to mention the numerous hand histories and other small nuisances I didnt get to mention, it is quite clear that Nionio was more than just a donk on a ridiculous heater. Our next course of action is going to be trying to pressure UB relentlessly until they give us a full explanation and investigation into this serious matter. Whether it was some rogue employee (my personal belief) or someone who was able to hack the system, we need answers.

[ActionBoy]

imo chestia asta e frectie la ochi.......adica vai noii proprietari au "investigat" ceva suspect la multele reclamatii despre acest "superuser" de care ei nu stiau nimic .....si dupa ce au investigat cu multi experti au ajuns la concluzia ca a avut un avantaj si ca va returna la toti banii inapoi cei care au fost implicati in maini cu acest super account.......adica lu ala ii da 30k inapoi lu altu 25k and so one....si scriu mare pe siteul lor si toti o sa zic"woooo UB s-a schimbat inbine, deci daca ma duc sa joc acolo sigur nu o sa am pb si daca am pb si joaca unu 75/55 impotriva mea...il reclam si imi iau banii inapoi" .........O MARE FRECTIE

publicitatatea negativa,si publicitatea asta ca s-a rezolvat problemele ...ESTE CEL MAI bun prrr PENTRU UB...cea mai buna publicitate ever

si sa fim seriosi eu si oricare dintre voi,cu un pic de cap daca eram superuser cu account vechi inainte de vanzarea ub,si lumea nu stia pai bah frate de nu jucam discret...jucam 25/20 imi alegeam mainile imi puneam doar un 3k pe zi profit obiectiv mai si pierdeam intentionat in alte maini.......nu ma lacomeam ca ala.

eu asta cred ca este vrajeala ,menita sa atraga jucatorii inapoi

[RDZ]

e drept ca cineva care a avut destula minte s faca asa ceva s ar fi gandit s a joace discret, s a mai si pierzi si asa mai departe.dar bani schimba oamenii...mai ales cand ai sansa s castigi multi cu minim efort.totu pare publicitate dar daca nu e??daca e adevarat incidentu ce se intampla?sfarsitul pokerului online?

[sever]

orice site dubios poate trisa. ub+absolute au acelasi patron. holdem.ro nu promoveaza aceste siteuri

poate am avut un feeling

[Nabukadnezar]

dar ce nu înţeleg eu... de ce Nionio juca cash games în loc de turnee? e mai uşor să scapi cu basma curată? că mă gândesc că ăia 604000$ câştigaţi la ring îi putea face dintr-un singur turneu mai jmeker

[RDZ]

sunt o gramada de metode de a scapa neprins cu o frauda din asta ...poate ne trec doar noua prin cap ca suntem romani , dar e putin probabil
si asta m a sperie...faptul ca pot fi multi jucatori din astia cu"avantaj" care raman neprinsi
oricum incepe s a sune tot mai mult ca o minciuna publicitara.

[sever]

sure, baga totul in aceeasi oala :/

se FAC bani din poker, dar e mai usor sa gasim scuze si obstacole pt a nu studia... again and again

ti-am urmarit posturile si treci f rpd dintr-o extrema in alta... "m-am mutat pe ongame si abia astept sa pun niste miini sa vedeti ce mi s-a intimplat, f ciudat" ... le postezi apoi spui "mda, am gresit la toate"

nu zic ca ar trebui sa fie incredere oarba in siteuri dar putem face niste diferente.
starsu a cistigat doar din feeurile la sunday warm up 45000$

[Donatello]

Tillerman mentioneaza in postul din blogul lui, unde am gasit link-ul, ca are un prieten caruia i-au fost returnati 6500$.
Interesant ar fi sa vedem parerea lui Phill Hellmuth despre chestia asta

[RDZ]

sure, baga totul in aceeasi oala :/

se FAC bani din poker, dar e mai usor sa gasim scuze si obstacole pt a nu studia... again and again

ti-am urmarit posturile si treci f rpd dintr-o extrema in alta... "m-am mutat pe ongame si abia astept sa pun niste miini sa vedeti ce mi s-a intimplat, f ciudat" ... le postezi apoi spui "mda, am gresit la toate"

nu zic ca ar trebui sa fie incredere oarba in siteuri dar putem face niste diferente.
starsu a cistigat doar din feeurile la sunday warm up 45000$

si acum schimb iara extrema si anume de 3 zile m am hotarat s a nu mai joc cash pana nu termin de citit cartea :No Limit Hold 'em Theory and Practice (David Sklansky, Ed Miller): deoarece mi am dat seama ca acum inteleg mult mai bine ce zice el pe acolo decat prima data cand am citito.

intr un fel sau altu tot o s invat poker pan la urma, vine o vara intreaga in care n am altceva de facut