H.R. 4411 Bill To Ban Internet Gambling Passes The House Today

[nowonda]

i'll be damned.. am trait s-o vad si pe asta.. un ne-pasionat de asa ceva sa admita ca pokerul e joc de skill.

cat despre partea cu argumentatia.. fiecare surub cu piulita lui. adica degeaba te duci la un judecator cu argumente legate de bani cand problema tine de legalitate, nu de profit. judecatorii tb in general sa aiba o "constitutie mentala" bazate pe logica. not so for the ******* politicians.. de-aia poti sa incerci sa-i demonstrezi unui deputat cu lunile ca pokerul tine de skill, il doare la banana, pe el il intereseaza buzunarul propriu si in cazuri fericite cel public.

m

[obs]

i'll be damned.. am trait s-o vad si pe asta.. un ne-pasionat de asa ceva sa admita ca pokerul e joc de skill.

Danezii si nordicii in general sunt deosebit de neinhibati la nou, au cele mai deschise minti ever. Nu sunt fanatici sau bigoti, nu au prejudecati si idiosincrazii, presonal ii admir teribil.

Cine poate, sa caute "Idiotern" de Lars von Trier, un film care spune multe despre tipul asta de oameni.

[sever]

In Suedia parca e cea mai tare asociatie

[Darth]

Am avut la jurnalism anul, ca proiect final, de facut o prezentare pe o tema legata de internet, la alegere. Am ales the ban on online poker. Dat fiind ca o prezentare la noi este jumate research paper jumate prezentare orala, a trebuit sa fac mult mult mult research (cel putin 5 surse) deci am citit extraordinar de mult pe aceasta tema.

Parerea mea este ca ban-ul asta nu va dura foarte mult.
Motivele sunt:

1. Democratii au castigat alegerile ceea ce este un pas in fata pentru poker avand in vedere ca majoritatea republicanilor erau inamici mari ai poker-ului online. Prin democrati se gasesc multi simpatizanti cauzei.
2. Pe masura ce trece timpul se gasesc din ce in ce mai multe argumente care arata ca legea este extraordinar de retardata. Printre ele:

- Incalca dreptul la libertate al cetatenilor
- Unul din motivele citate pentru aceasta lege era incercarea de o oprii minorii sa joace online. Asta nu tine de guvern, ci de parinti si acest "motiv" devine din ce in ce mai transparent avand in vedere ca nu s-a plans nimeni ca aceasta ar fi o mare problema a societatii americane. Motivul asta e doar o fatada si asta a devenit foarte evident.
- Lumea incepe sa-si dea seama ca aceasta lege se vrea a fi de fapt o incercare de monopol in favoarea loteriei si curselor de cai, activitati regulate si taxate de SUA. Se spera ca odata cu aceasta lege, "cartoforii" isi vor indrepta atentia catre aceste activitati care aduc statului bani, spre deosebire de poker.
- Situatia cu Antigua in care WTO si EU sunt clar impotriva americii.

[CrazyMaxX]

The Wall Street Journal

Back Door Bush?
It's truly amazing to what lengths politicians will go, simply to maintain a position that has clearly become untenable to sustain. We are talking about the U.S. and its ban of online gaming. This latest analysis comes from the Wall Street Journal.

The Bush administration, pressured by an unfavorable ruling by the World Trade Organization, plans to push for legal changes that could make it easier for European service companies, from engineering firms to law firms and shipping companies, to do business in the U.S., officials say.

The U.S. is required to offer trading partners greater access to the American market because in May it lost a long-running dispute at the World Trade Organization over laws that banned foreign firms from offering Internet gambling services in the U.S.

• The News: The White House plans to push for changes that could make it easier for European service companies to do business in the U.S.
• The Background: After the U.S. banned foreign gambling Web sites, EU trade officials sought compensation for billions of euros in lost income. The U.S. has been in a trade dispute over online gambling since 2003, mainly with Antigua and Barbuda.
• What's Next: EU and U.S. negotiators are working out details of a compensation offer to open some sectors of the U.S. services market to greater foreign competition.Europe's online gambling firms were hit particularly hard and complained to the European Union's executive arm in Brussels. EU trade officials took up the matter with the WTO, seeking compensation for billions of euros in lost income. The EU invoked a rarely used WTO rule that requires a country that closes one market to foreign companies to open others to compensate trading partners.

A host of countries, including India, Japan and Canada, have filed similar claims for compensation, but the talks with the EU and its $8 trillion service sector promise to have the biggest financial impact. As a result, while any affected sectors would be opened to all 150 WTO members, European companies stand to gain the most.

The Office of the U.S. Trade Representative this month began talks with EU officials on opening some sectors of the U.S. services market to greater foreign competition.

To be sure, the issue will be contentious and subject to fierce lobbying. Congress and state legislatures would have to sign off on changing laws that now protect American service concerns. States generally control access to sectors like insurance, engineering and legal services. The federal government controls foreign access to activities like shipping, telecommunications and postal services.

The U.S. Internet gambling market is valued at more than $15 billion, so the outcome of the U.S.-EU negotiations will likely be worth billions of euros to European companies.


"We have to offer something substantive,"


says a senior U.S. official.

Global trade in services is growing quickly. U.S. consumers bought $314.6 billion of foreign services in 2005, twice as much as in 1997, including banking, insurance and airplane trips. The areas in which European companies hope to gain greater access include insurance, legal services and mail delivery, says Pascal Kerneis, secretary-general of the European Services Forum, a Brussels lobbying group.

One example of the kind of practice the EU could seek to change: Today, a foreign lawyer or law firm can't practice law in New Jersey without residing in the U.S. (though they can in Maryland). Foreign companies are also prohibited from offering some forms of legal services in Delaware, a lucrative market because of the high number of corporate registrations in the state.

This means U.S. trade officials have to include states in their negotiations. Setting policy on trade in goods, by contrast, is relatively simple because the federal government controls tariffs on all imports.

According to several legal experts, the states might not be easy to win over.


"Frankly, I'd be very surprised if the Bush administration pushes for federal legislation that would affect access to U.S. markets for foreign lawyers,"


says Laurel Terry, a professor at the Penn State ****inson School of Law and an expert in the regulation of the legal industry.

"The issue of lawyer regulation is very sensitive and has traditionally been handled by the state judiciary."


The U.S. is required to submit a formal offer of market access to the EU by Sept. 22. If the sides disagree, a WTO panel will arbitrate. That has never happened in a case on services, so the outcome would set a precedent. In the end, the U.S. could hope to mollify the EU by offering trade concessions in other protected areas where the EU and U.S. disagree, including agriculture, military contracts or subsidies to aircraft makers.

British gambling companies such as 888 Holdings PLC and Party Gaming PLC -- which drew more than half their revenue from the U.S. -- lost billions in stock-market value after a new U.S. law banned credit-card companies from receiving payments from foreign gaming Web sites.

The USTR could be bailed out by Congress were it to change the law to again allow foreign firms to offer online gambling. Several such bills are on the table.

"The U.S. could make this all go away by passing legislation,"


says Nao Matsukata, a former senior U.S trade official and a policy adviser at Alston & Bird, which represents clients on online-gaming issues.

So far, none of the bills have garnered enough support. European gambling companies say they have given up hope of doing business in the lucrative U.S. market for now.

The forced concession to the EU on services marks the end of a losing battle the U.S. has fought at the WTO, mainly with the Caribbean nation of Antigua and Barbuda. In 2003, the country challenged U.S. prosecution of foreign online-gambling companies. The U.S. argued it was entitled to ban foreign gambling companies because it couldn't have foreseen the rise of the Internet when it first pledged to open part of its services market in 1994.

[AndreiL]

Pe 26 sept e urmatorul termen in procesul intentat impotriva guvernului american de Interactive Media Entertainment & Gaming Association, baietii vor sa ceara Curtii neaplicarea legii si propun pentru indulcirea guvernului impozitarea banilor castigati

[sever]

Online Gambling "Prohibition" Hits Snag: US Required to Respond by 21st

iMEGA Responds, Contests US DoJ Dismissal Motion in UIEGA Challenge
Association legal team demonstrates our case for standing and
potential harm to our members through bad law.

Today, in accordance with the deadline set by Judge Mary L. Cooper,
iMEGA's legal team filed its brief with the US District Court in New
Jersey (Trenton division), in response to a US Dept. of Justice
motion to dismiss our complaint against the Unlawful Internet
Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA).

The defendants' (US DoJ, Federal Trade Commission and Federal
Reserve) contend that iMEGA does not have requisite standing to bring
our complaint versus UIGEA, and, given that the rules and regulations
for the new law have not yet been created, that the law is "unripe"
for this kind of challenge.

In the response brief, iMEGA's attorneys provided ample precedent for
both our standing as a trade association acting on the behalf of our
members, and for the potential jeopardy of prosecution the new law
puts some of our members in. They contend that it is not necessary to
wait for one of our members to be prosecuted before the law may be
scrutinized by the courts.

The brief also highlights the heretofore unexamined jeopardy that
affiliate marketers who live and operate in the US may be in due to
UIGEA.

Next up: the defendants have until Sept. 21 to respond to iMEGA's
request of the Court for a temporary restraining order, preventing
UIGEA from being enforced before our complaint can be properly heard
by Judge Cooper.

[tribaci]

Nu cred ca e cazul de alarmari, eu nu vad sa aduca prea multe noutati, oricum nu era voie sa ai site-uri de poker romanesti nici inainte. Singura clarificare care trebuie facuta este ca "participa la desfasurarea de " nu se refera la jucatori.

Vad ca pe site-ul ministerului de finante a aparut varianta finala a proiectului de lege. Articolul 23 este modificat si elimina ambiguitatile, incriminand din ce vad eu doar organizarea de site-uri pe teritoriul Romaniei, nu pe jucatori. In concluzie nu pare sa se fi schimbat nimic fata de legile anterioare

Lege privind organizarea şi funcţionarea jocurilor de noroc

GAME ON!

[KhaZix]

October 30, 2007
Stephen Noh
Online poker is finally seeing some encouraging trends. The reopening of Doyle's Room is one positive step in the direction of reversing the UIGEA and, according to a notable pro, could be a foreshadowing of things to come.

Recently, Barry Greenstein and other professional players, in conjunction with the Poker Players Alliance, made the trip down to Congress to lobby for our right to play online poker and returned with great news. Greenstein, who should have increased visibility within the poker world in the future with his presence on the new "The Poker Road" webcasts, had plenty to share.

On a popular internet forum, Greenstein posted the following:

"I'm sure
Pokernews Cup Australia 2007
it will be less than 6 months before Congress realizes that they need to pass legislation contrary to the UIEGA. If it hasn't already happened, it will happen in a few weeks. I don't know how slow the process is and how much debate there will be as to whether there is a different approach that should be taken than the Frank and Wexler bills."

Greenstein expanded on this incredible news on a recent "The Poker Road" show, where he explained what he witnessed during his trip.

"We met with politicians and I can tell people that I am very confident that online poker is going to be back strong, legal; use credit cards, bank accounts, it would really shock me if it wasn't within the next six months."

Greenstein said of the impression they made on Congressmen, "It made them realize that poker players aren't gangsters, that they're pretty well-educated people.

"I would say that we almost had a perfect score. We met with 30-40 Congressmen, and I can only think of one person who didn't say to me afterwards that I am going to vote for the bills that you guys want me to vote for."

One of the main points that Greenstein brought up was the effect that the group had on Congressmen's staffers. He said, "They write things up and advise them on how they should vote. These staffers are all under 30 years old and male, and that population invariably plays online poker… they were on our side, that's strong."

While their impact on staffers was important, Greenstein cited the largest factor for his predicted rapid progress of legalization of online poker as something completely independent of their lobbying. He noted, "The biggest thing that turned the corner for us is the European Union has a case against the United States for up to 100 billion dollars in sanctions because we're denying trade through the WTO agreement. That meant that they knew that we had to do something. Really, all they're looking for is a way to ease it over to their constituency and say, 'We have to do something, it's fiscally responsible to do something.'"

Congressman Barney Frank, who had previously publicly stated his desire to overturn the bill, also met with Greenstein and gave him positive news. "What Barney Frank said is as soon as he knows there are enough votes in the Senate to push this thing through, then he'll put it up for the vote. He just has to count heads and it's on our plate. We talk to enough politicians, get them to agree to vote our way, soon as he sees it's right, it will be put through."

This is a huge step in the battle against the UIGEA and, with the continuing operation of Full Tilt and PokerStars along with the reopening of Doyle's room, could be an indicator that the other sites that left the U.S. market could be coming back soon.

Sursa : pokernews.com

[Ygrek]

Great news! Sa speram ca iese cum trebuie. GG Greenstein!

[Dioscuri]

un moment bun de cumparat actiuni la 888 si party

[florynus]

Eu m-am apucat de poker chiar cand a fost introdusa legea asta si nu am prins americani la mese. Poate cineva sa-mi spuna daca era mai profitabil cand jucau si americanii?

[sever]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogv5Y2aNnG8]YouTube - News Clip on PPA DC Fly-In Event (10/24/07)[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6r1E2yFgVc]YouTube - News Clip on PPA DC Fly-In Event (10/24/07)[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7OEL2tkC2Y]YouTube - News Debate over UIGEA (10/24/07)[/ame]

[sever]

Harvard Law Professor Wants Congress to Ease Poker Laws
Wednesday, October 31, 2007

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — A Harvard Law School professor best known for defending the man who leaked the Pentagon Papers and for helping parents sue chemical companies in a case popularized by the film "A Civil Action" has a new cause: poker.


Oct. 19: Harvard Law professor Charles Nesson, top left, looks on as he plays a hand of poker with Harvard Law students.

Charles Nesson wants governments to relax restrictions on poker players. He has formed the Global Poker Strategic Thinking Society with some of his students to promote poker as a fun learning tool and to redefine it as a game of skill, rather than a game of chance.

"I'd like to legitimate poker as an educational instrument," Nesson said. "It's a great way to learn and practice the skills of seeing what things look like from another person's point of view."

Locally, Nesson wants to loosen Massachusetts' limits on small-scale poker tournaments. He's still angry that an annual student-run charity tournament was canceled last spring because organizers did not know they needed a permit.

He's also lobbying Congress to overturn or amend a U.S. law that effectively bans online gambling.

"Obviously the distinction is that in games of chance, you're not using your brain," he said. "You may be entertaining yourself but you're not really engaging in a developmental activity, whereas (in) games of skill you develop skill. You learn to be smart, you learn to win."

Nesson rose to fame by defending Daniel Ellsberg, who in 1971 leaked to the media the "Pentagon Papers," secret documents that indicated the government deceived the public about whether the Vietnam War could be won. Ellsberg faced up to 115 years in prison, but the charges were dismissed because of government misconduct against him.

Later, attorney Jan Schlichtmann persuaded Nesson, an expert in evidence, to join his legal fight against chemical companies whose alleged polluting was suspected of causing leukemia among children in Woburn. Jonathan Harr's book, "A Civil Action," documented the case and was later turned into a film starring John Travolta.

About a month ago, Nesson and several dozen students formed the poker society. Besides the legal arguments, they want to promote what they say are academic aspects of poker. They are planning academic seminars on poker for youngsters.

They created a Web site and are helping organize chapters at Yale, Brown, Penn State, Stanford and other universities.

Andrew Woods, a third-year Harvard Law student who is head of the founding chapter, is planning a Harvard-Yale poker match the night before The Game, the annual November meeting of the universities' football teams. He said USC and UCLA poker clubs will square off before those schools take to the gridiron next month. They are exhibition tournaments, with no money wagered, he said.

Woods envisions a "March Madness" tourney next spring to coincide with the NCAA basketball tournament.

"I'd like to be able to talk about poker and not have eyebrows raised," said Woods, 24. "People tend to associate poker with craps and roulette and slot machines and the Wild West."

Nesson said the Poker Players Alliance, a 2-year-old lobbying group that claims to represent 809,000 poker enthusiasts nationwide and gets funding from commercial gambling companies, provided $10,000 to support a seminar last spring where he, students, academics, pros and lobbyists discussed strategies.

Woods said he is starting a fundraising effort to help his poker society expand to hundreds of campuses, and he may ask the alliance to contribute.

Nesson and Woods were on Capitol Hill last week, joining the alliance in pressing Congress to consider several new bills that would exempt poker from the Internet gambling law. The alliance estimates there are between 15 million and 23 million U.S. Internet poker players.

Supporters of the ban say Internet betting can be addictive and potentially drain people's savings. U.S. Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., is a leading proponent of preserving the ban. Without it, "minors are able to gamble from their own homes," Kyl spokesman Ryan Patmintra said.

The Rev. Richard McGowan, a Boston College professor and gambling expert, said he supports the ban because online gambling entices underage people and can lead to addictions. McGowan said he's skeptical of Nesson's efforts.

"It does seem like it's glorifying gambling," he said. "The industry is always trying to argue that these are games, not gambling."

[sever]

LAS VEGAS -- Barack Obama has warned about the dangers of gambling -- that it carries a "moral and social cost" that could "devastate" poor communities. As a state senator in Illinois, he at times opposed plans to expand gambling, worrying that it could be especially harmful to low-income people.

Today, those views are posing a problem for Obama in the gambling mecca of Nevada, which holds its presidential nominating caucuses Saturday. While his top rival, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, also talks often about aiding low-income Americans, she has embraced the gambling industry and its executives, and her campaign has used Obama's past statements in an effort to turn casino workers and other Nevada voters against him.
...


read more:
Clinton plays gaming card against Obama - Los Angeles Times

Candidatul preferat al jucatorilor de poker online este Ron Paul dar nu prea are sanse.